JET THE HELL OUTA HERE

Dialling in a carb on a modified engine is shit. A deeper level of understanding of the functions of each carb part would help, but I think a bit of knowledge and a lot of trial and error will provide eventual results.
I have started to document different setups, emailing the list to myself and updating with each trial.
The current setup is - px200 malossi 210 kit, 185 inlet timing, ignition 18degrees Before top Dead Centre, sito plus exhaust, si24/24e dellorto carb, 450 km's into break in.

The factors are
- idle jet - marked with 2 numbers. The second number divided by the first gives a number. The smaller that number, the richer the idle mix. This, along with the air mixture screw, affects running up to half throttle, and a little bit higher in the throttle range.

- idle air mixture screw - Depending who you ask, should be between half a turn out and three turns out. This should essentially be a way of fine tuning the idle jet. Turning in makes leaner, out makes richer.

- MAIN JET STACK- consists of three things joined together. Supposedly effects a quarter throttle( a bit) through to full throttle.
- air corrector - (stock 160) measures amount of air allowed into the mix. Number represents hole size, so bigger number = more air = leaner mix

- mixer tube, aka jet holder or mixer.- still unsure about this one. I know it comes in a BE3(stock) and BE4. The holes are smaller and in less amount on the BE4, and my current take is that it is a richer thing in the end. research has shown people have used smaller main jets when using the BE4. There is more to it than that and I intend finding out.

- Main jet - simply the bit on the end of the stack that has a hole in it. The marked number is the hole size in metric (a stock 116 main jet has a hole of 1.16mm)

I will copy and paste my experiments and the results here.....

128 - be3 - 140 air - 55/160 - 2 turns out temp-200-220 around town 320 flat stick * top speed 103

125 - be4 - 140 air - 55/160 - 1.5 turns out temp- 25 around town - 340 flat stick

125 - be3 - 140 air - 55/160 - 1 turns out - loves it great accelleration - temp 280 around town to scary to open out (at least 350)

130 - be4 - 140 air -48/160 - 1.5 turns out (lean off the low rev circuit, and keep the mid kinda lean, but richen the top) too lean at full revs 220-250 temps around burbs

YET to try

128 - be4 - 140 air -48/160 - 1.5 turns out (lean off the low rev circuit, and richen the mid range and top)

125 - be4 - 160 air -48/160 - 1.5 turns out (lean off the low rev circuit, and richen the mid range and top)

128 - be3 - 120 air - 55/160 - 1.5 turns out (restrict air at the top end to richen the midrange and top)

current - 130 - be3 - 160 air - 48/160 - 1 turns out -seems to be unable to get lean symptoms at idle and low revs. Perhaps is too lean and I can't tell. Fanging up and down easey street in 2nd and 3rd got the temp to 240 . Seems to have a good power band after half throttle . Low throttle is a bit boggy/ hesitant

below is a page from the SIP scooter sit ein Germany:

No theramin, no good vibrations

Due to a lack of prior experience, I can't tell whether the excessive vibrations on the new motor are due to the 'clauss studios urethane engine mounts' or due to a wonky crankshaft.
The cheapest (and most tortuous) way of finding out would be to pull the motor out and put the rubber ones back in. This will be hellish.

well fork me, it fits

Well I'm not out of the woods yet, but the PK50XL2 fork arrived from Germany today, intact and with hub, brake, speedo cable etc.
It seems to fit with the bearing races and threads, etc. It is just a matter of working out how to get the headset and the front fender on.
If I have to change the top of the fork to fit the VNA headset, then fine. If I have to change the fork top in a DIFFERENT way for a VNA (which I have ready) to a GL (which I will put on one day in the future) then I will get a GL one to begin with.
The fender I will simply abuse until it fits, then bog it up until it is relatively smooth.

At last I feel as if I am getting somewhere. The wiring is ordered, and the seat is paid for.
I will continue to cut and polish the frame as is, then bog up the VNA cowls. The big job is going to be adapting these forks.

wire people so unkind

Wiring time for the GL, and I don't really know where to start.
A quick glance on the Beedspeed website shows a selection of custom looms designed for PX motors in oldy scooters.
I'll start with a shopping list... (in scottish pounds from the beedspeed website)
custom loom -29.99 pounds

A Starter Relay - 14.99

An electric start button mounting on the handle bars, we have one available separately part number 24 613 5020 in the Autos starter motors section - 3.99

safety switch that inserts into the clutch outer cable - 4.99 (front brake switch)

A Battery Charging Type Voltage Regulator Box - 26.99

Beedspeed conversion light switch ( or a DC Rally switch ) - 19.99

DC type brake light switch. - 3.99

VEPSA CUSTOM WIRING HARNESS UNIVERSAL

RALLY, SUPER, SPRINT, GL, GT, SPORTIQUE, GS, 152 L2 FITTED WITH PX ELECTRIC START ENGINE.

SUPPLIED WITH DIAGRAM FOR FOUR ALTERNATIVE LIGHT SWITCHES AND IGNITION CUT OUT TYPES.

You will also require the following:

An electric start button mounting on the handle bars, we have one available separately part number 24 613 5020 in the Autos starter motors section - One 15mm hole will have to be drilled.

You will also require a safety switch that inserts into the clutch outer cable, this makes it not possible to start the engine if the scooter is in gear without first pulling in the clutch. We have this part available separately listed as a front brake light switch in the Vespa Light Switches section.

A Starter Relay - This can be found in the Vespa Light Switches Section.

A Battery Charging Type Voltage Regulator Box. See Vespa electrical section.

A 12 V Battery. We recommend the CB9-B or similar, this fits correctly in the majority of vespa battery trays, and has plenty of power to turn over the motor. Please check the battery dimensions in our battery section, against the size of your battery tray.

Finally if your scooter was a none battery type, then you will require the Beedspeed conversion light switch ( or a DC Rally switch ) and a DC type brake light switch. These are available separately in the Vespa Switches section.

a big fork'n gamble

I have bought a fork from Germany (ebay). It is from a PK 50 XL2.
In order to have a sixties scooter that doesn't dive under braking, as well as the ability to add a disc brake, it is common to add a pk fork. 'They' say that to do an 8 inch wheel to 10 inch wheel conversion you need a pk125 fork, but NOT a pk50 fork. I need a 10" to 10" conversion, which (apparently) needs a PKXL 2 fork.
I have taken a punt on the 50 being the same as the 125 in this model. It should arrive sometime next week, so I'll let you know.
Oh, and just to rub salt on the wound, SIP scootershop has just put PK conversion forks back on their catalogue. At least there is a (albeit expensive) solution available if I have the wrong part.

torturous break in period

The 210 is running great in the T5 frame.
I am running with a 128 main jet, and it feels a little rich.
When i stopped for my first plug chop the Cylinder Head Temperature stopped working. I am fairly reliant on this while fiddling with carb settings, as it gives me an idea what causes a lean mix, and what doesn't.
I kept the carb settings for the first 200km's until a replacement guage arrived. Fortunately the scoot was running at a steady 200 fahrenheit around town.

The general consensus for breaking in technique is to 'just ride it.... but avoid long spells at the same speed'. So that's what I'm doing. Reving it up good, but not full fang in fourth.
More later on the break in.
I have added a pic of dyno results. I found a site with dyno comparisons using different performance exhausts. I superimposed them all together to give a rough idea of the qualities of some exhausts. I currently run a sito plus (blue line) and have a SIP performance ready to go on once it is broken in. I had the sip on my stock engine for a while and although it wasn't the best on stock, it did allow the engine to rev as much as it wanted. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens when it is combined withe the malossi kit.

engine swap one day, cases open again the next...

The process of swapping my stock motor for the malossi 210 kitted motor was a fun one. It was pretty straight forward but for a few huccups. I have just split the cases again (in the bike) to replace the kickstart quadrant and spring....

I have decided to describe this process with copies of my posts on various forums.......

International scooterBBS - June 5

After many months of getting bits and bobs together I have finally put the malossi 210 in my LMLT5 frame... and it runs!
It is my first time and I am pretty pleased.
Just one question......
The splines for the kickstart are about 25 degrees too low. Either I put the thing together wrong when I split the cases last month, or it is the wrong gear inside. The engine was originally put together by someone about 6 years ago.

If I have put it together wrong is it ok to adapt the kickstart to sit in the right spot?

If it is the wrong internal, is that ok, and how do I find out whick model kickstart to get? (this would be ironic as I have bought a scootrs kickstart lever to look oldy worldy but fit a PX motor).

This motor is going in my GL frame once it is run in and dialed in nicely.

derek
LML-t5 .. p200e motor...sito plus 22 main
VNA basket case on jig - going to be a pot stand.
210 motor on bench... not any more

Are you missing the rubber kickstart buffer on the inside of the case?

no, that was in there.
If the bike is on the stand and I climb on a chair, The kickstart works perfectly normally, only too far down. I guess I could put the bike over a pot hole to start it.

derek

does your kick start fit like this one does?
http://www.scootermd.com/images/scoots/pser(11).jpg

{cut and paste the whole link above as the ()'s cause the link to go all screwy}

if so you have the wrong kickstart pedal and quadrant combo. The one above is a rally pedal on a P-series quadrant.

later,

Tim

good work Tim. Mine goes the other way (down) so I am hoping I have a rally quadrant in there. Hopefully this won't do any harm to the p-motor.
All I have to do is get a rally kicker, yes?

cheers
derek

Conclusion,
The engine was originally put together to go into a GS frame, so a rally quadrant was inserted.
Thanks for your help folks

derek

Melbourne Vespa Connection - 9pm June 8

"well, after a disappointing first day with the malossi kit (the kickstart quatrant was bent causing it to not return) I bit the bullet and spent the afternoon splitting the cases (p200) to replace the kickstart gizzards.

I haven't been out on the road yet but it starts and goes through the gears.

once it was started last night and this morning, it went really well. Only issue is the vibrations which are probably due to the clauss studios hardened engine mounts and the mount bolt done up too tight."